korean netizens are racist cowards

6/10/2008
korean-netizens-are-racist-cowards

note: i’d like to start this post by stating that i’ve changed the title. out of anger, i included the nons de plume of a korean netizen with whom i was angry about a post on her site. while i will leave this discussion on my blog for the sake of public record, i have removed her name from the title as a consiliatory action, designed to show my attitude is not directed at this one person, but rather at the attitude of ‘netizens’ in general. the permalink, however, cannot be changed … and i apologise for that.

i’m really quite tired of hearing about korean netizens. during the 2006 world cup, koreans were banned from fifa’s website as a result of the netizen complaints. not only did the national soccer team play very poorly, but koreans complained because they believe they have a right to win. this blind patriotism is really quite astounding sometimes.

so, imagine my surprise when i found a korean netizen has blogged about me and my site. this netizen’s name is mannoya. of course, that’s not her real name. she hides her real name and identity because she’s a coward.

her blog has an article (full article in korean is below, so she can’t delete and deny it) which states that my nude photographs are pornographic. she states that it’s offensive and unethical. there are numerous assumptions on her blog that she doesn’t support with evidence.

i’ll deal with her comments one by one, for the point of simplicity.

first. mannoya is a coward. my identity is open and true. i’m not hiding behind some website. i’m an honest person and i have nothing to fear. korean netizens hide their identity and then make accusations about everyone else. mannoya would never have the courage to contact me. she would never have the courage to speak to me face to face the same way she speaks in her blog. she is very much a coward.

mannoya states that my nudes are not art, they’re porn. she provides two links to prove her point. one link is to a blurry photo which looks like it was taken by a 10 year old child. in my opinion it’s a terrible photo. art is very much subjective. my nude photographs have no sexual intercourse. all of my photos are a tasteful and not too revealing. i don’t have much experience in nude photography. but it’s not reasonable to say my photos are porn simply because they’re not blurry.

mannoya states that i don’t have the right to publish the girls’ photos on the internet. however, in fact, i do have the right. those were professional models. each girl was paid 300,000 won (about $300 US) per hour for the shoot. the models also signed release forms. both models were over 20 years of age. therefore those photos belong to me. the girls were paid very, very well for the photos.

mannoya continues by saying that i’ve made rude comments and insulting comments about women (probably korean women) on other websites. however, mannoya provides no evidence to support this accusation. i’ve never offended or insulted women. why would i do such a thing?? there is no evidence and she cannot support this statement. it’s a lie.

mannoya admits that she’s offended because the models are korean and i’m a foreigner. this is an admission that mannoya is racist. if the models were white, she wouldn’t care. if i was korean, she wouldn’t care. mannoya is a racist, pure-blood korean because she doesn’t want foreigners ruining the “perfect reputation” of korean women.

mannoya stated that sexual issues are each person’s private business. yet, she’s on the internet complaining about my photos … which are my private business. this is an extremely hypocritical point of view. also, mannoya never contacted me or attempted to communicate with me in any way (via email, which would have been more appropriate) … instead, she jumps on her secret identity and proudly admits that she’s a racist coward.

well, i would like to retort with a few points of my own:

my website has nearly 400 photographs. of those, 20 phoographs were part of my nude gallery. the other 380 photographs were all taken in korea. 380 photographs that showed the wonder and beauty of korean life. 380 photographs that highlighted how much foreigners love to live in korea and immerse ourselves in korean culture. but, obviously, those 380 photographs are not important.

my website has 30 articles regarding photographic tips and tutorials. the articles are designed to help photographers improve their skills (mannoya uses a photo logo on her site, suggesting she has an interest in photography). but, obviously, those 30 articles are not important.

my site has a guide for buying cameras, in depth reviews of photo equipment and discussion about my life in korea. but, obviously, all that information is not important either.

the only important part of my site is 20 nude photos. wow. that’s just amazing … ignorant, but amazing.

i’d also like to point out that mannoya’s anger towards me is very much misguided. you see, i live in one of the most sexually perverse countries in the world. the korean government has evidence that over a million people work in korea’s sex industry. korea’s sex industry is larger than thailand. every neighborhood has 안마 rooms (sex and massage), room salons (sex and karaoke) and love hotels (sex hotels, paid by the hour). during my 6 years in korea i’ve had countless experiences where korean men (married korean men) tell me that they get drunk and have sex with prostitutes. this is not random at all, this is a common occurence. it’s a part of korean male life. very few husbands can claim to be faithful to their wives, because office ‘bonding’ involves drinking and sex.

in fact, 4 days ago two old korean men (in their 50s) were on the subway looking at porn DVDs that they’d bought. they were looking at the DVD cases on the crowded subway. women and children were nearby, and the DVD covers were very graphic. these men didn’t seem to care at all.

none of those problems are important. what’s more important is a foreigner who has 20 nude photos of korean women on his website. 20 photos of perfect, pure-blood, korean women.

the opinions of people like mannoya are simple biggotry … and what makes it worse is that she lies about me degrading women on other websites … and doesn’t even have the courage to reveal her identity.

*as an after thought, i believe mannoya may have lived abroad (in LA) and it’s possible that she knows me or has met me. this makes her opinions even more ignorant and racist. you’d think that someone who lived abroad would have a better understanding of reality … and you’d think that she’d have the courage to contact me directly.

… obviously not.

mannoya … your country has many, many problems. why don’t you try fixing your own country’s corruption, economic failure and sexual perversions. once your country is perfect, then criticise me and my photographs.

the following is her blog entry. recorded here for prosperity so that she cannot delete her post and deny what she wrote. i would expect a person who is a coward to delete their own blog so that they can pretend nothing happened.

어느 교수님의 사진.

Semilla님의 포스팅을 읽다가 예전에 쓰다 잊어먹은 토픽도 생각이 났고 누군가를 가르치는 사람으로서 과연 그 자질은 어떻게 평가되어야 하는가에 대한 생각 해 본다.
개인의 사생활이 어떤일을 하는데 있어 적합하다 혹은 적합하지 않다라고 말할 때에는 여러가지 기준이 있을 것이다.

Semilla 님이 언급하신 교수님을 말하자면 게이라서라거나 가르치는 방식이 독특한 것에 대해서의 내가 교수로서 자격이 있다 없다 할 수는 없다고 생각한다. 학점을 빌미로 학생들과 성관계를 맺는 교수들이 수두룩한 마당에 개인의 성 정체성은 충분히 존중되어져야 한다는게 내 생각이다. 불법적인 행동이야 당연히 처벌받아야 하는거고 이러한 ethical issue에 국한에서 하는 말이다.
교수라는 직업을 지키면서 한쪽에서 포르노를 찍는다는 건 그런면에서 (내 생각으로는) 한국에서도 크게 이슈가 된적이 있었던 교사의 누드사진 문제와는 다른 문제인 것이다.

내가 여기서 말 하고자 하는 사람은 한국에서 영어강사로 일을 하고 있는데 블로그에 따르면 호주와 영국에서 고등학생들을 가르치기도 했고 한국에서도 초중교를 거쳐 현재는 기업체 영어강사로 일을 하고 있는 모양이다.
짧 게 설명하자면 남친이 웹서핑을 하다가 어느 비디오 클립 밑에 난데없이 벌어진 동양여성 비하+성적 코멘트 사태를 보다가 그중 상당히 저질의 글을 남긴 사람이 버젓이 자기 블로그를 이름에 링크해 놨기에 방문을 했고, 한국거주중이라는 걸 보고 나한테 알려주게 된 거였다.

문제는 이 사람이 이 블로그에 올려놓은 누드들인데, 본인을 teacher이며 photographer로 자칭하는 그 태도에 비해 사진 상태들이 상당히 논란스럽다는 거다. 내가 예술적인 감각이 없어서 그런다고 할지도 모르겠지만 개인적으로 이 사람의 사진들 과 예술성이 있는 누드라고 생각되는 사진1과 사진2를 비교해보면 그 차이가 확실히 있다. 미안하지만 내가 볼때 이 사람의 사진은 porn이지 art가 아니다. 궁금한 사람들은 직접 비교해 보고 얘기해 주길.

개 인적으로 내가 학부모이고 내 아이의 미술선생님이 사진1이나 2을 찍었다면 내 아이들을 벗겨놓고 찍은것도 아니고 딱 봤을때 외설스럽다기 보다는 조각이나 옛 그림을 보는 듯한 느낌을 주는 이러한 사진들을 가지고 문제 삼을 생각은 없다.
(물론 아직까지도, 그런면에서 많이 개방적이라고 우리가 알고 있는 서구사회에서도 누드모델을 하거나 모델의 사진을 찍는 행위는 예술성을 떠나 항상 논란거리이긴 하다.)
하지만 그 사진들이 David Smeaton의 사진과 같은 거라면, 난 화가 날거다.
저 런 사진을 찍는 취미를 혼자 간직하는 정도라면 몰라도 버젓히 같은 블로그에 교복을 입은 학생들과 함께한 사진을 올리고 그 바로 밑에 누드모델들을 감독(?)하는 본인의 모습을 올리며 포토그라퍼라고 소개하는 뻔뻔함은 정도가 좀 지나치다.
누드사진들은 정말 딱할정도이고 그나마 나쁘지 않은건 평범한 사진들인데 기술적인 면에서의 나쁘지 않음이지 사진으로서 교감할 수 있는 그런 수준은 못 된다.
애석한건 영어를 가르치는 사람으로서도 그의 포스팅을 읽다보면 캐쥬얼함을 벗어나 약간 수준이 낮다는 인상을 받게 된다는 거다.

개인적으로 기분이 상당히 나쁜건 누드 사진들은 하나같이 동양여인들 (굳이 말하자면 한국인) 뿐이라는 거다.
이 사진을 찍은 아가씨들은 자신들의 사진이 Flickr등을 비롯해 외국유저들을 상대하는 온라인에 공개되어 있다는걸 알고는 있을까.

예 술을 하는 사람들의 누드에 대한 사랑은 잘 안다. 그림을 하는 사람들에게도 누드란 하나의 어려운 과제이며 이건 사진, 조각등에도 해당한다. 무용을 볼 때도 사람들은 사람의 몸이 어떻게 동작하고 감정을 표현하는지를 보지 몸에 딱 달라붙는 무용복에만 시선을 두지 않는다. 물론, 익숙치 않아 남사스럽다는 사람들도 있지만 저런 옷을 입고 무용을 하기 때문에 내 아이들을 가르칠 수 없다, 라고 하는 사람은 본적이 없다. 예술은 확실히 외설과는 다르다.

한국헤럴드 영자판에서 사진관련 섹션도 가지고 있고 내노라 하는 공기업과 사기업에서 일을 하는 이 사람, 내가 수업을 받아보지 않았으니 실력이 어떤지는 모른다.
어쩌면 본인은 정말로 자신이 예술을 하는거라고 믿기 때문에, 미성년자를 대상으로 사진을 찍은것도 아니기 때문에, 혹은 정말로 그정도 취미생활은 열린관점에서 인정해줘야 하는걸지도 모르겠다.

과연 그를 채용한 사람들이 이 사람의 블로그를 방문해 본적이 있었을까?
그는 과연 지인들이 아닌 영어강사쪽이든 신문사쪽이든 일관련 인물들에게 자신의 블로그를 소개하고 사진들을 보여줄 자부심이 있을까? 한국인 친구(혹시 있다면)들에게는?
만약 이미 그런것들이 다 알려졌고 받아들여진거라면 또 다른 질문이 여기서 생겨난다.
과연 같은 한국사람이 같은 상황에 있었다면 어땠을까.
만약 취미생활과 일에 대한 실력이 별개로 취급되어야 한다는 것이 이 사람에게 적용된다면 그건 그러함이 당연하기 때문인걸까 아니면 이 사람이 외국인이기 때문인걸까?

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There are 6 comments in this article:

  1. 6/10/2008Mannoya said ...

    OK. First of all, it is very interesting that you assume that I am angry at you. Yes, I’m offended by your nudes, and yes, I don’t think they’re artistic. As you said yourself, art is subjective. There is no absolute role for everyone to feel the same positive way on the same objective. I see no reason that yours should be an exception. As this can happen to anybody in anywhere, I didn’t feel that I should contact you to approve my dislike. Plus I find those two photos I linked are quite artistic, especially the one of a pregnant woman. Let’s not focus on the one you call ‘blurry’ and ‘poorly done’ because you know about photograph, it is arrogant, too.
    This is neither the anger towards you ruining Korean women’s reputation nor racism. You didn’t do anything illegal and I didn’t say you did. I even mentioned that it is possible that you consider them seriously and they’re just not for my taste. For your information, it is because your photos remind me of those low levelled ones reflecting oriental fantasy on ‘Asian chicks’. As an Asian woman, I don’t find it very respectful but a naïve view of westerners, you may not happy about it but that’s between you and me, it’s not subjective to associate with Korean massage parlour or word-cup incident.
    I didn’t say you have no right to post your own work on your own blog. Here are my points of the article. I don’t find your work artistic and I explained why. And it is not common at all for Korean girls to agree their nudes being published online (the word publish usually means on the paper in Korean, which made me wonder if they knew it could also be online accessible by almost anyone who uses web). It is good that you made contract with them, mentioning how much they got paid is still bit off the subject because you have all the rights of those photos as long as you hold contract with models, regardless of payment. That was my question on the matter, not an assumption.
    The last paragraph of my article is a question about if Koreans you work and socialise with knew it and accepted it, would it be because my country has become so open for such matters or because you’re a foreigner. Do you see the point? I am actually pointing out Koreans being so generous on foreigners (westerners, to be precise) for the matters that can problematic. I know my country is not ready to accept a person, who has proven to willingly photograph nudes and teach under-aged in “any possible way”. I wrote so because I found Koreans being racists against their own people, not being fair. So where is the racism for you?
    For the last, your comment on Korea’s corruption, economic failure, and sexual perversions are very irrelevant and almost childish. Are you saying that I don’t have a right to dislike your photographs and dare to talk about your fine work and your blog because my government and its policies work poorly and my people suffer? I didn’t know that. Common now, if I was from one of few countries with great government and economic/social environment in your standards, I could comment on your photos? That sounds very close to racism you’ve been accusing me of, no?
    My postings are published in Igloos.com and can also be found through web searching. How would you explain that almost non-comment on my article, if it is so provoking? You seem to know the negative side of Korean netizens, so you sure know it can cause many of them actually visit your blog and leave bad comments, not to mention email attack and what not. It didn’t happen because what I wrote is clearly my own opinion and people just read it and let it go. I don’t understand why you had to come up with all of those to defend yourself and prove me wrong. Being a good photograph is also to connect with viewers, not only to people who know a bit or more about it. I gave you a critique and it is up to you how to handle it. But such generalisation and insult on the whole nation for my very personal article doesn’t seem ‘cool’, does it?

    **I live in Malaysia; you would know it and my point of view on racism if you tried my articles (since you somehow can understand Korean). Guess i wasn’t the only person who omitted other entries of a blog.

  2. 6/10/2008David said ...

    firstly, i have good reason to be concerned about korean netizens (of which you are one). there is a history of netizens targeting foreigners. i can provide links to stories where foreigners have been harrassed due to netizen mob mentality.

    secondly, i don’t speak korean. so i rely heavily on translation programs to know what you wrote. you clearly speak english, yet exclude me from your conversation by doing so in a language it’s safe to assume i don’t understand.

    besides, you didn’t answer my questions. where is your evidence that i have belittled or insulted korean women on other websites? i think you have a responsibility to provide verification.

    if you were criticising my photographs, then i can handle that. i have no problem with the concept of art and porn. if you want an intelligent, academic debate … or even just a friendly discussion … i’d happily entertain it. but you were talking about me, not to me. and you were judging me based on issues you have no knowledge about; such as whether the models knew their pictures were being released on the internet … the answer to that question, frankly, is none of your business.

    and yes, i removed my photos. why???? because i wish to limit the opportunities for korean netizens to copy those images and spread them across the internet without my consent. those images belong to me and i don’t want them to be used in some kind of hate campaign. i’m protecting myself.

    generally (and i mean face to face) koreans are wonderful, giving people. however on the internet, i am usually confronted by koreans who use their anonymity as a weapon.

    my point about korean social problems, despite your retort, is very relevant. you cannot dismiss it offhandedly. it’s commonplace for koreans to aim their anger at outside influences, rather than internal ones. anma parlours are an example. my photographs hurt nobody … if you want to spend time on the internet airing your grievances, why not be constructive and point at more serious social issues. one photographer with 20 nude images is hardly corrupting korea.

    and finally, yes, i am angry. i think i have a right to be. you named me on your site. you pointed to my blog. you said that i was a teacher. you focused on the concepts of pornography and ethics. you do not critique my photos, you critique my professionalism and my reputation. you talked about me. you accused me. and you did so on a korean blog, protected by your anonymity.

    i think that justifies my anger.

    if you’d written about my photos only. if you’d discussed the line between photography and pornography, i would have been delighted to chat with you. i have many friends and i love to argue such points of morality and ethics.

    you did no such thing. you attacked me and labeled me as unethical. then you lied and stated that i make nasty comments on other sites … which you ignored and have not justified.

    those are my reasons for feeling hurt, angry and defensive.

    by the way … you are hiding behind your blog. your blog may be public, but your identity is kept secret. what do you have to hide?? why don’t you tell me your name and discuss this with me openly??

    you didn’t have anything to say to me until i labeled you a coward, racist and liar. it hurts to be labeled by someone who knows nothing about you, doesn’t it!!

  3. 6/10/2008Semilla said ...

    Hi, my hubby told me it was useless to get involved in internet arguments, but I felt compelled to make some clarifications as my post about a college professor who led a double life as a porn star triggered Mannoya’s post about you.

    Her first comment on you degrading Korean women on other sites was part of her explanation on how she found your blog in the first place. If it is true that you never made such comment, perhaps she confused someone else’s comment with yours on whatever that controversial video clip it was on that other website. At any rate, it was under that context that she found your blog, which, I’m afraid, might have had an influence on how she viewed your nude photos. Not fair to you, of course, and well, artistic sense is such a slippery concept anyway. I personally disagree with her opinion on your photos, (was actually somewhat happy to see actual Korean women confident with their body, as you probably know how the culture represses us) but that’s besides the point.

    Whether it is art or not, what is true is that Koreans have double standards on most things, and one of the victims of extreme conservatist scrutiny is teachers. For some reason, the Cofucianist culture demands a lot of respect for teachers (so you don’t dare step on your teacher’s shadow, for example), and likewise, have high expectations of people performing that role of a teacher. The person recently elected to be in charge of public education in Seoul, for example, had promised to ban dating in public schools. Anything even remotely sex-related is just that much of a taboo in open quarters especially when it involves education in Korea. (And what those men do at night are not that well publicized so that not many women raised in “normal” homes have no clue about that aspect of reality in Korea… until they get married to one of those men.)

    So what Mannoya was trying to get at in her original post was citing you as an example of someone who does things that normally would get you ostracized among Koreans, and wondering if you get away with it because you’re a foreigner. It is unfortunate that while doing so, she was criticizing your work and questioning your ethics, but she is entitled to her own opinions, just as you are of her blogging practices. But that wasn’t really her main concern of her original post. She was questioning the double standard of Koreans who blindly praise and accept foreigners (of developed countries) and yet keep enforcing hypocritic traditions among themselves.

    I don’t know what I’m trying to accomplish with this reply, but I feel bad about what happened, and hoped to increase understanding. Yes, Korean culture does not make a whole lot of sense, but it is the default perspective for many Koreans, and they will react emotionally to something they think is offending to them even if it is totally acceptable in your culture. Many of them will not go the extra mile to do some research and find out that it is ok in your culture and just be offended. I think you are brave to live in my country where there’s plenty of such short-tempered people.

  4. 6/10/2008David said ...

    semilla

    thanks for your reasoned response. this issue has hit me from quite a shocking angle. i’m confused as to what is going on and how i’m suddenly involved. college professors?? porn stars?? what????

    as i stated, i would like to know how she found my site. i don’t believe that i would degrade women (especially korean women) since i live here and enjoy living here. i was quite offended by that accusation. especially with no justification (links or quotes).

    if mannoya’s point was not being critical of me, then i am afraid that i don’t see it. i understand your view, that perhaps foreigners can do things that koreans would be reprimanded for … but that definitely was not clear in her post.

    perhaps i am brave to live in korea (this country has given me a fair share of highs and lows) but i genuinely have a good time and i genuinely like korean culture and its people … ironically, as i write this, there’s a photograph in the sidebar of men pouring soju (a custom i particularly enjoy).

    the crux of my hostility was being attacked for presenting those photos. mannoya admitted that there was a double standard (foreigner/korean women) and this double standard presented itself as a racist point of view.

    i was quite hurt and deeply offended that something so innocuous was causing so much drama.

    however, as i said initially, i always welcome reasoned discussion. it’s never been my intention to be rude or offensive. i don’t like to throw the word ‘racism’ around.

    i will happily apologise to mannoya or anyone if my statements were undeserved. i’m an open and honest person. i give my respect easily to others and only ask for the same respect in return. i’m happy to talk more about this … it need not be another internet argument … as long as i’m not in a position where i have to defend myself on moral grounds.

    thanks again for your message.

    david

  5. 6/10/2008Mannoya said ...

    My thanks to Semilla, she really well pointed what I was talking about in my original post. I do speak English but what I use is for Koreans, that’s why I wrote in Korean. As you may know, web-translator is not trust worthy for any language. So now I see why you mixed all.

    I found your web like over a month or ago. I know it wasn’t about Korean women and I didn’t say so, don’t worry. There were some people making sexual jokes and I do not remember what you said. It is rather obsessive to remember that I crossed such a time ago. But it is true that my impression on you is based on this incident and I don’t deny that it probably had impact on how I viewed on your photos. I saw and heard a lot worse than those. If I was really convinced that you were a horrible devilish person foreigner, it is very easy to lead people to see only what i want them to see. But I have nothing to gain from doing it.

    I don’t feel like to add something more as Semilla did it really good and you look understood. Consider what I mentioned about your work is a critique, and she also proves it does not affect others to think in my way. So please relax, I don’t like such an argument either.

  6. 7/10/2008Semilla said ...

    The post on the porn star prof was actually a response to another post at someone else’s blog. That blogger has a daughter in high school, and some of the the teachers’ photos on the faculty page of the school’s website were decades old, so she had wrote how she shot one of the teachers, photoshopped the image, and gave it back so he could update his online profile.
    That post about teachers with old photos on their website reminded me of this professor, whom I’ve not met but heard from other professors, that after he left my school and went to another school, one of my current professors found out that he was also a gay porn star. So my professor wondered how he kept the two identities separate, and when he went to the faculty page of that prof’s new school, what he found was a photo of when he was 13, at his Bar Mitzvar.

    Then, reading my post, Mannoya was reminded of another person in the teaching position, you, posting questionable (in her point of view, and also, possibly in most Korean point of view) photos on your blog, and wondering what standards we have for teachers.

    I guess at first you might have felt that you were being targeted for one of those netizen attacks and I guess, had Mannoya’s post been on D******* or N**** type of Korean online communities, some people could have jumped to conclusions and rallied for another witch hunt, condemning you as a streotypical white guy taking advantage of gullible Korean girls who just want to study English or whatever.

    I don’t think that was Mannoya’s goal, she was certainly looking at your photos from an offended perspective, and was asking other Korean readers what they thought (and only I responded, saying that the photos look genuine, and sorry about my assumptions about what you might have wrote on other websites on degrading Asian women), and whether it was because you’re foreign that you still have a job as a teacher.

    At any rate, sorry for the unpleasant experience. And thanks for being patient with my people and enjoying our culture. After all, people like you help us see more clearly the bigotry of our traditions and hope for better changes.

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